Kelly Picks a Fight: The Israelites

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Kelly Picks a Fight: The Israelites

Don't even think about calling me an anti-Semite or a terrorist sympathizer. I'm not. I'm simply a justice seeker. The situation in the Middle East is far too complicated for me to know which side to be on. I really just want to have a Rodney King moment and ask, “Can't we all just get along?”

I will say that I'm a Jimmy Carter fan and, despite regular ridicule, he seems to know how to achieve peace in the region. He made a sizable dent during his presidency with the 1978 Camp David Accords between Egypt and Israel. And the Geneva Accord, which he helped negotiate a few years ago, is probably the road map to the much-agreed-upon two-state solution between Palestine and Israel. Of late, he's been a harsh critic of Israeli policy, especially their December-January attacks on Gaza which killed 1,300 Palestinians, including 412 children. (Only 13 Israelis died during the incursion.)

Again, I understand enough to know that there are many layers of issues and decades of tension to overcome between the factions. Both sides have been the victims of horrendous oppression and subjugation. I get that. However, I'm standing with Jimmy in opposition to Israel's decision to target Gaza as they did. But what gets my goat even more is that now everyone else has to pony up cash to rebuild the damage Israel did in Gaza. I don't have the stats on how much other countries are pitching in to rebuild Iraq after we blew it to bits, but I'm pretty sure we're footing the bulk of the bill. Shouldn't that 'you break it, you bought it' policy hold for Gaza, too?

gaza.jpg

Seems not. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Israel right now, having just come from Egypt where 70 countries collectively pledged $4.48 billion in aid to Gaza, including $900 million from the United States and $1 billion from Saudi Arabia. The Palestinian Authority had only requested $2.8 billion. Most of the parties involved are insisting that the aid money go hand-in-hand with peace talks.

It's great that everyone on the outside wants peace, but what do the capricious Israelis and obstreperous Palestinians want? Well, rival Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas have emerged from conciliatory talks in Cairo pledging to release detainees and stop attacks on each other. (And hopefully they'll stop shooting rockets at their neighbors, too.) Analysts say that is the first step toward solving the greater puzzlement. So, that's a very good thing.

israel.jpg

The problem then becomes Israel, whose government is in a state of mild turmoil with no coalition agreement yet being reached. Also, Prime Minister-designate Benjamin Netanyahu is a hard-liner who does not want to see a separate Palestinian state. Even still, Clinton proclaimed that the American support for Israel is “unshakable.” Really? Unshakable? Really? That feels sort of like when Senator John McCain took it upon himself to say we were all Georgians back during that weird and inappropriate skirmish last year. Where's the tough love, Hill?

Again, there's a lot more to all of this than I can get to in a blog. However, I just don't see how we move forward when one side seems so resolute in their opposition to the one solution that almost everyone else agrees on... let alone do it with “unshakable” support for that problematic nation.



Comments [37]

yonks's picture

You should read some Shlomo

You should read some Shlomo Sand, professor of history at Tel Aviv university
pasted:

Israel deliberately forgets its history
An Israeli historian suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East

Every Israeli knows that he or she is the direct and exclusive descendant of a Jewish people which has existed since it received the Torah (1) in Sinai. According to this myth, the Jews escaped from Egypt and settled in the Promised Land, where they built the glorious kingdom of David and Solomon, which subsequently split into the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. They experienced two exiles: after the destruction of the first temple, in the 6th century BC, and of the second temple, in 70 AD.

Founding myths shaken

Is the Bible a historical text? Writing during the early half of the 19th century, the first modern Jewish historians, such as Isaak Markus Jost (1793-1860) and Leopold Zunz (1794-1886), did not think so. They regarded the Old Testament as a theological work reflecting the beliefs of Jewish religious communities after the destruction of the first temple. It was not until the second half of the century that Heinrich Graetz (1817-91) and others developed a “national” vision of the Bible and transformed Abraham’s journey to Canaan, the flight from Egypt and the united kingdom of David and Solomon into an authentic national past. By constant repetition, Zionist historians have subsequently turned these Biblical “truths” into the basis of national education.

But during the 1980s an earthquake shook these founding myths. The discoveries made by the “new archaeology” discredited a great exodus in the 13th century BC. Moses could not have led the Hebrews out of Egypt into the Promised Land, for the good reason that the latter was Egyptian territory at the time. And there is no trace of either a slave revolt against the pharaonic empire or of a sudden conquest of Canaan by outsiders.

Nor is there any trace or memory of the magnificent kingdom of David and Solomon. Recent discoveries point to the existence, at the time, of two small kingdoms: Israel, the more powerful, and Judah, the future Judea. The general population of Judah did not go into 6th century BC exile: only its political and intellectual elite were forced to settle in Babylon. This decisive encounter with Persian religion gave birth to Jewish monotheism.

woops

more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966952.html

The latest work of professor Shlomo Sand discussed in this article is another powerful argument in favour of the one state solution. The only longterm guarantee for future prosperity, peace and co-existence is for Israel/Palestine to exist as the democratic state of its citizens, where it does not matter if one is a Jew, a Moslem or a Christian, black, brown or white.
By helping to shatter old myths Professor Sand has made an important contribution towards this goal.

-Do not follow me, I'M LOST-

ct's picture

as big of an ass as joseph

as big of an ass as joseph farah is, he knows a thing or two about israel, and one of his columns from years ago (2000) is the best thing to get the facts across quickly to others.

pasted:

"If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians want a homeland and Muslims want control over sites they consider holy. Simple, right?

Well, as an Arab-American journalist who has spent some time in the Middle East dodging more than my share of rocks and mortar shells, I've got to tell you that these are just phony excuses for the rioting, trouble-making and land-grabbing.

Isn't it interesting that prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, there was no serious movement for a Palestinian homeland?

"Well, Farah," you might say, "that was before the Israelis seized the West Bank and Old Jerusalem."

That's true. In the Six-Day War, Israel captured Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem. But they didn't capture these territories from Yasser Arafat. They captured them from Jordan's King Hussein. I can't help but wonder why all these Palestinians suddenly discovered their national identity after Israel won the war.

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem.

Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites."

Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth, fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.

The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've been there. Can you imagine what it is like for Jews to be threatened, stoned and physically kept out of the holiest site in Judaism?

So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more chaos. Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name."

and "palestine" was a pile of dirt before the jews moved back and PURCHASED LAND. they didn't fight anyone for it. in fact, they were attacked, and won. arabs left on the word of arab nations, being told that they could return as soon as the jews were defeated.

woops.

mysticsmb's picture

Why should Palestinians have

Why should Palestinians have to be 'taken in' by other Arab countries when they have been kicked off their own land? (see my comment below about a Palestinian whose family went on vacation and returned to find Israelis living in what was his legal home)

Palestinian culture is not virtually the same as that of other Arab nations. Many of them, for instance, are (or were) Christian. Their language and traditions have as much in common with Israelis as they do with other Arabs.

It's laughable to say Palestine was 'a pile of dirt' before Israelis started cultivating it, but even if it was, why should that matter?

Great, Israel sent out fliers and other warnings about imminent bombings--where the hell were Palestinians living in Gaza supposed to go? The borders were closed.

Israel may think it's protecting itself, but the only solution for that region is a political one, and every bomb it launches takes them further away from peace and consequently makes them less safe.

ct's picture

i'm not even going to bother

i'm not even going to bother with complete paragraphs, but here it goes...

arabs have control over 99% of the middle east. palestinians are arabs. and guess what? none of those other countries will take them. there is absolutely no distinction between palestinian culture and any other arab culture. same religon, same holidays, same language, etc. but guess what again? israel understand their plight more than anyone. israel gave them gaza, which has been taken over by terrorists (hamas).

palestinians are also not being oppressed by israelis, they're being oppressed by their own people and their own governments. why are their walls separating palestinian territories from israel? because they have to be there. just like backpacks have to be checked before you go into a supermarket, just like how purses must be checked before you go into a mall. just like how you have to be interviewed before you board an el-al flight. it has to be done for EVERYONE'S protection.

israel was nothing but a pile of dirt before the jews began to cultivate it. they had nothing and built an absolutely amazing and brilliant culture. the israelis love their country and each other more than we can even begin to understand.

everything israel did with regards to the recent gaza war was absolutely necessary and completely supported. do you know why so many palestinians died? because hamas sets up in CIVILIAN AREAS. they set up in school zones and neighborhoods. they do it on purpose. they don't give a shit about their own people. and before israel launches air strikes on civilian areas they let those people know. announcements, fliers, word of mouth. they tell them to leave. israel had to bomb the areas they bombed, because it was the only way to stop the influx of weapons. what else should they have done?? israel takes more shit than any other country out there. they are constantly on guard, they are constantly harassed, treated like villains, and misrepresented. they fight back. and they should. this shit just happened in 2006 with lebanon! and again, people blame israel, when lebanon was the one initiating a war and kidnapping israeli soldiers to use as bargaining tools.

did you know hamas intercepted relief aid sent their way by israel and jordan? they prevented relief from reaching their own people, and the world blames israel.

if mexico had been launching rockets into texas, arizona or california we would have done the exact same thing, except we wouldn't have waited so long to do it, nor would we have been so nice about it.

i was in israel when this was all happening, and israeli's will do whatever it takes to protect their country. not whatever it takes to harm palestinians.

Yvonne's picture

Heya Yonks, Well I see you

Heya Yonks,

Well I see you all the time Smile one way that is, always lurk on this site. Too good to miss lovely topics.

Hope you are doing good my friend.

yonks's picture

Hey Yvonne, long time no see!

Hey Yvonne, long time no see! Nice of you to pay a visit.
Smile

-Do not follow me, I'M LOST-

Yvonne's picture

[...]The Palestinians must at

[...]The Palestinians must at the same time recognize that they cannot win this war, and that their so-called allies will never provide them with what they need to take back their original territories, and that this particular goal is no longer even remotely realistic. They’ve been colonized, and the colonials are not going away, ever.[...]

Really? that's like saying to your daughter to accept that her step father is a pedophile and is here to stay..

It is you, the knowledgeable people who can end this CMW, you and me, and we both know that the Holy Land can't be BUT shared with all THREE religions under ONE government and that government would contain Muslims Jews and Christians as Human Beings not Religious Beings.

I thank you for the detailed post though, at least you got most of the problem.

oh and P.S.: Iran does have religious background, Apocalypse is nearing according to the Qur'an (Koran) and history is showing it.

Sad eh? humanity's situation will always be sad.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Anytime! :)

Anytime! Smile

yonks's picture

Its just a book, it dont tell

Its just a book, it dont tell everything and its tell no solution but i'v found the analyze interesting.
I'v read a book few year ago from a Jewish guy, Dominique Vidal "Israel original sin" talk about the massive Palestinian exodus during the 1949 war, estimated 700 000 to 900 000 palestinians expelled from theirs home, forced to go to the country around and never allowed to get back, even though, in international laws, refugees are supposed to be allowed to get back home after a war.

So imagine all theses peoples and their child living into the country around. No wounder why Israel is surrounded by peoples who hate them. (plus the political use of the situation from those country)

In Vidal's analyze, the fact that Israel was in infraction with international rights lead the political class to get rid (politically) of all educated palestinians who speak in term of law and right (A large part of them had move in to france). At the beginning, the real problems of Israel was the educated peoples, including in their own rank (such as Hannah Arendt who had been call antisemitic even though she was Jewish) who wanted a non religious state. And the erase of this class live the full room open for the religious and the terrorists in both side to rise.

This is my resume of the book, i leave a link to the author.
http://mondediplo.com/1997/12/palestine

-Do not follow me, I'M LOST-

Fastgurrrl's picture

CMW

CMW breaks...it...down...awesome, thanks Lady! Smile

Fastgurrrl's picture

Mmmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmm! YU

Mmmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmm!

YUP YUP

Fastgurrrl's picture

CMW, I was originally going

CMW, I was originally going to put elected in quotes. I feel ya.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Like the majority of the

Like the majority of the West, US support for Israel began from a sense of guilt over the holocaust, which was entirely preventable.

Today's support, however, is very different. Money, power, and religious extremism play huge, and largely ignored, roles. I know my post is long, but I did cover the influence of outside interference in the war as briefly as was possible. It's clearly not the only factor in this war, but it is the one that is ignored, and as such (in my opinion), it is the key reason why peace is not possible until it is addressed.

Believe it or not, what I posted is brief when compared to how it started out. I wish I could have reduced it to one or two paragraphs, but I couldn't figure out how without the point I was trying to make losing its meaning. In the post, I outline in very general terms the nature of US, Iranian, and Saudi influence and interference, and how it inhibits any peace effort.

Robin Rigby's picture

The thing I've never

The thing I've never understood (and forgive me CMW if you explained this in your lengthy comment, but I'm tired and didn't read it) is why the USA has for decades been such a staunch supporter of Israel. Regardless of who's in office and how our policies toward other countries may rise and fall our government's attitude in regards to Israel never waivers. It's a mystery.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Yeah, I feel for Secretary

Yeah, I feel for Secretary Clinton, she's shoveling shit against the tide.

Believe it or not, I actually shortened it up considerably, and it is but one of many very complex issues that are preventing a peaceful solution. This one just happens to be the only one that is routinely ignored, despite it likely being the most serious issue.

mysticsmb's picture

Whoa baby, I'm exhausted just

Whoa baby, I'm exhausted just reading all that--thank you CAMW for taking the time to write all of it! As you point out, the situation in the Mideast is complicated enough without the insidious meddling by some American Christian groups in the Jewish settlement movement and the fomenting of Jewish/Palestinian (and Arab) tensions--despite the fact that many Palestinians were and are Christians (though their numbers are rapidly declining). The Apocalyptics never could wrap their heads around that one! And I suppose they won't have to much longer as they push the Palestinians toward more radical factions of Islam.

All I can say, given all the hurdles to peace you've outlined, is good luck Hillary.

lucia_2008's picture

There will be 2 states before

There will be 2 states before it is over. All the unnecessary deaths sadden me.

Smile...life is good!!!

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

I'm still at odds with the

I'm still at odds with the idea "W" was ever elected in the first place, but I guess that's a debate that's been thoroughly beaten senseless anyway.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Yeah, I don't see how a two

Yeah, I don't see how a two state solution could work anymore either, especially with one state (Palestine) not able any longer to have contiguous and defensive borders. They need a one state solution that protects the rights of all involved, and that promotes living and working together in peace and mutual harmony.

Unfortunately, Israel isn't about to cede any of the territories they've "claimed," and Palestine simply cannot survive as a Balkanized patchwork state. Funny thing that, if you look carefully at the economic interdependence, neither side can survive without the other, even when at each others throats.

Too bad they can't each see that through the hatred they have for each other. Sad

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

You will always see that

You will always see that phenomenon, the oppressed trying to curry favor with their oppressors by themselves becoming oppressors of others. Even within our own population (LGBT), you can see evidence of racial and gender oppression.

And, I'll bet that it is likely outsiders coming into Palestinian areas firing those rockets, or at the very least encouraging certain unstable elements within the Palestinian population to do so (probably with healthy financial incentives). You would be surprised how motivated impoverished people will get when their children are crying because they are hungry, and someone steps up and offers to feed them in return for a favor.

LongBeachDogLover's picture

I'm not too sure about the

I'm not too sure about the conflict between Israel, and the Palestinians. I really don't understand enough about it, to feel comfortable expressing an opinion.

All I know is... I would really like to walk through the 'Holy Land' before it's blown to smithereens. Sad

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

We give Israel tens of

We give Israel tens of billions in military aid and hardware each year. $900 million to help pay for the consequences of that policy is relatively cheap compared to how much we spend to create the consequences to begin with. You can be sure religious organizations here in the US, especially Apocalyptic Christians, will be raising far more than that to give to Israel to continue the genocidal destruction of the Palestinians.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

There is no simple answer

There is no simple answer here, so this one is going to be a long reply.

The Israeli-Palestinian war has become a major for profit venture for global military weapons industries, and peace in the region is NOT in their long term best interests. While a relative handful make hundreds of billions of whatever currency denomination each year, many civilians die, mostly Palestinian to be sure, but with just enough Israeli deaths to make sure the hate remains equally intense on both sides of the conflict, thereby perpetuating it.

Then we have the outside religious influences, mainly from the US and Iran at present, and both equally hypocritical in their respective support for Israel and Palestine. Here in the US, Apocalyptic Christian End-Timers believe that Israel must gain complete control over Jerusalem, rebuild the Temple, and then be destroyed, save for 144,000 Jews who have converted to their brand of Christianity. They are working very hard towards this goal, believing that in doing so, they will trigger a massive global war, forcing Jesus to return in their lifetime to stop it (and of course Jesus will also kill anyone who does not believe as they do, especially the Jews). This particular brand of Christian no more supports the right of Jews to have a homeland than they do LGBT equality. Their support is limited solely to their theological goals, after which the achievement of them means the total destruction of all Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. The goal is simple, global holocaust and destruction. Were a long term peace to break out, but no Rapture occurred (the alleged removal of True Believers from the planet in preparation for the arrival of the Antichrist), their theological reasons would be shown to be false, not to mention hypocritical. Therefor, any sort of viable peace plan is NOT in this group's short or long term interests unless it strictly conforms to their twisted interpretation of biblical prophesy.

A subset to this line of thinking believes that any long term peace is a sign of the arrival of the Antichrist, something to be thwarted as long as possible. If long term peace is established, it must result in an outbreak of violence about 3.5 years later, which in turn must result in the same global holocaust, beginning in Israel. The goals are the same, except this subset wishes to delay it by promoting continued conflict and violence as long as possible to prevent the Antichrist from coming to power. Once that power is achieved, the goal is to destroy any peace and trigger planetary destruction and the mass extinction of the human race. Any lasting or viable peace is definitely not in this subset's long term interests.

Iran isn't quite that ambitious in their religious goals, but they are equally hypocritical in how they are used. They no more care about the Palestinian people than the Apocalyptic Christians do the Jews. Iran's motivations have more to do with long term strategic military, political, and economic secular goals than any sort of theological motivations. For Iran, this is about business and the attainment of regional and/or global superpower status. Religion just makes the story a bit more interesting to outsiders.

A more minor player, although very significant in their own right, in this nearly century old war has been the Saudi's. They have been the chief financial motivator behind much of the violence directed at Israel and the West (the latter due to their support of the former). Again, however, the religious motivations in public view have a more covert secular perspective. The Saudi government has a vested interest in appearing to take significant action against Israeli aggression (real or perceived), in order to quell rising outrage within their own borders at the atrocities being committed by Israel against the Palestinian people. They also have very serious strategic motivations as well, primarily directed against Iran, that are both secular and religious in motivations. Again, they no more support the Palestinian people than Iran does, they just want to curb as much as possible the Iranian influence in the region.

Egypt and Syria as well are major players in this conflict. Both serve as major points of entry for the offensive weapons flowing into the Palestinian territories (Syria through Lebanon, the latter largely a failed state under the control of the former), as well as the materials necessary for the manufacture of less technically sophisticated weapons (mostly the rockets that were recently being used). While Egypt is aligned with the Saudis, and Syria with the Iranians, they profit from the flow of arms through their nations to both factions of the Arabic side of the war. For these nations, the motivations are strictly monetary. Once again, the religious aspects just make things more interesting to outsiders.

Israel, too, benefits from this conflict. Their own internal defense and security industries, with their extensive experience in combating terrorism and insurrections, have profited hugely off the conflict. This is especially true since September 11, 2001, when the world turned to Israel to seek ways to plug their own security holes. The conflict also provides and excuse to steal more territory away from the Palestinians and expand Jewish settlements into those areas, an unfortunate consequence of necessity in the face of unregulated immigration into Israel (particular from the former Soviet states).

From my viewpoint, about the only ones not making a profit in some way from this war are the Palestinians themselves, save for the very few in positions of power who control all the resources available. While I am a Jew myself, I am also part Native American, and see frightening similarities between what Israel is doing to the Palestinians and what the European settlers did (and continue to do to this day) to Native Americans (my Jewish grandparents twigged me to this one). While I admire Jimmy Carter, and applauded him when he referred to Israeli policies towards the Palestinians as Apartheid, I have a much more harsh term for what is happening: Genocide. I see the outside influences as equally guilty with Israel, because of their roles in creating and perpetuating this war, much as the Europeans did during the invasion and conquest of the Americas.

Any peace solution must include both the end of outside influences in the conflict and taking of both sides to task when they commit atrocities and war crimes. That means, bluntly, no more military or financial support for either side, save for humanitarian purposes and economic growth necessary to preserve both sides. 61 years of heavily arming the various sides has not achieved peace (any six year old could have told our leaders that one).

Israel needs to be encouraged to put aside their racial and religious hatred, and to return to the original secular roots of the early Zionist movement, which recognized the rights of all peoples, especially those originally in Palestine. Israel needs to stop the uncontrolled colonialism and unregulated immigration that has created the forced illegal expansion of the Israeli State into the lands held by the original Palestinian inhabitants. Even if all Palestinian territories were taken and handed over to Israeli settlers, there is no way the region could support the entire global Jewish population. It is time for the expansion to stop, and for rational and practical immigration controls to be put into place.

The Palestinians must at the same time recognize that they cannot win this war, and that their so-called allies will never provide them with what they need to take back their original territories, and that this particular goal is no longer even remotely realistic. They've been colonized, and the colonials are not going away, ever.

Both sides need to sit down and talk to each other. They need to recognize the devastating influence wrought upon them by outside influences, and find a way to thwart them together. They need to recognize that, like it or not, they need each other to survive on every level, and that no solution which keeps them from living together in harmony and peace will ever work. A point has been reached in which neither side can survive without the other, especially given the strategic and theological motivations of outside influences. While a two state solution is somewhat workable (provided both sides have contiguous borders), I prefer a single secular state, with both sides working together for the mutual purposes of survival, growth, equality, mutual respect, and mutual progress while preventing the influences of outside power players.

And yes, the situation is far more complicated than just this particular set of circumstances I've pointed out. But, in every peace negotiation, every treaty between the Israelis and Palestinians, these particular problems have been repeatedly glossed over and ignored by all sides within Israel-Palestine, to their own detriment, and to the benefit of the very outside influences that are harming them.

minniesota's picture

I will just say a variation

I will just say a variation on what Zara T. said, which is, "¡Ai carumba! Now I have a headache.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Fastgurrrl's picture

I agree!

I agree!

mysticsmb's picture

Some may want it, but they

Some may want it, but they keep building settlements like crazy on the West Bank. Basically I think Israelis just want the Palestinians to go away, because they realize there's no good solution--which is why many of their actions (like electing Netanyahu) seem illogical.

I don't know anymore if I support the two-state solution because Israel has gobbled up all the good land and only wants to give the Palestinians the leftovers. Gaza, for instance, is a barren, relatively useless spit of land. The Palestinians will be hard-pressed to make a go of it with just Gaza and part of the West Bank, and without a viable economy there will always be unrest. Israel would prefer to ignore these very real political and economic realities and act as though Hamas is the sole problem.

Kelly McCartney's picture

Oh, but we're certainly going

Oh, but we're certainly going to try to do just that... or we HAVE been trying to do just that.

Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword

Kelly McCartney's picture

Yeah, like that.

Yeah, like that.

Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword

Fastgurrrl's picture

You mean puzzling like how we

You mean puzzling like how we elected war-monger-muthafucker?

YUP GOOD FOR BUSINESS THOUGH

Fastgurrrl's picture

Me too. If we're just gonna

Me too. If we're just gonna print money like crazy then they should be able to print enough here to make all of our problems go away, otherwise...

WTF

Tex's picture

Of all the enemies to public

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes … known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.… No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

— James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

We, the US, have got to stop this "we can buy our allies" mentality. In the modern era it began before WW I - of course it is a highly complicated ideal, but right now, at this point in time, we simply can't afford to be buying our friends. Out of this reparation chaos I did find an article I wanted to post - gotta love the Brits:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm

Twitter Time @kdhales

Kelly McCartney's picture

Yeah, it is. I know the Jews

Yeah, it is. I know the Jews have been through a lot as a people, but that's no reason to oppress another population. They should have learned about compassion somewhere along the way.

And, yes, the Palestinians need to stop firing those damn rockets. They should have learned about futility somewhere along the way.

Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword

Kelly McCartney's picture

Let's hope it doesn't come to

Let's hope it doesn't come to that. The Israeli people actually want the two-state solution, so it's puzzling that they would - even narrowly - elect Netanyahu when he so clearly doesn't want that.

Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword

Kelly McCartney's picture

You are very welcome. I just

You are very welcome. I just starting stewing the other day when I heard about the $900 million.

Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword

peacekitty's picture

Hi Kelly, I just want to

Hi Kelly, I just want to thank you for witing this and I agree wholeheartedly. You wrote everything I was thinking.

"Fight Prime Time. Read a Book"

mysticsmb's picture

Kelly, despite Clinton's

Kelly, despite Clinton's statement, her (and Obama's) reactions in supporting aid to Gaza and criticizing Israel for impeding the flow of said aid are telegraphing something very different to the Israelis and they are PISSED.

http://wcbstv.com/national/hillary.clinton.israel.2.945238.html

So I think there is some 'tough love' at work here, thankfully-- let's hope it's not too late.

Thanks for pointing out the idiocy of the world standing by while Israel pummeled Gaza then anteing up billions to rebuild. Really? I thought we were in a global depression.

Also, have been hearing rumblings that the two-state solution outlined in Carter's Oslo accords may be DOA because Palestinians no longer trust the Palestinian Authority (think it's rapidly becoming a puppet of the Israeli gov't) and think a better option is to scrap it and wait another ten years or so until they will outnumber Jews in Israel. This is of course Israel's worst nightmare, but then WTF were they thinking bombing Gaza into oblivion?

Zara Thustra's picture

Thank you for writing this.

Thank you for writing this. The US landing-strip otherwise known as the "state of Israel" is completely infuriating....oy, now I have a headache.